Talk:Allelujah Haptism
Anyone else think the infobox is a bit picture heavy? Simant 01:03, October 7, 2009 (UTC) I think 1 profile picture should be enough. The rest be put into the gallery or used within the article (History for example). Same with other character profiles. Bronx01 20:16, February 12, 2010 (UTC) I only added the age differences and whatever that would distinguish the other in the story, besides, we got a tall list of categories and sub-categories, we mind as well take advantage of the empty space and fill up the right side. Wasabi 21:51, February 12, 2010 (UTC) Tall list of categories and sub categories that can be hidden.... with 1 click. Again, if people want to compare the characters look when they are this and that, we can make an image gallery for them, or we can put the images along with their history so people can see how they change over time. 1 profile image is enough. Bronx01 20:24, February 13, 2010 (UTC) Early Days I was scanning Grave Violento's profile (and 00P) and saw that there is a gap between the shuttle incident (when Hallelujah massacred those SS with him) and when Celestial Being took him in. Allelujah spent his days before Celestial Being running away from HRL, who's determine to eliminate him since he's a runaway failed subject. Bronx01 20:24, February 12, 2010 (UTC) So long as you have references and sources, please add them in. Wasabi 21:51, February 12, 2010 (UTC) Allelujah Haptism's Early years I just looked at what was said about the shuttle incident and his time spent running from the HRL... It doesn't really make sense when the HRL Super-Solider scientists themselves did not know that Allelujah was still alive and that he was in the computer files as 'disposed of'. If what was said is true then it 00 completely contradicts itself. And if not, then I need to pay better attention to what was being said in the anime. Reply: Well, you're not really wrong. I saw that episode when they were looking at his files. Though, keep in mind, there is Veda. In the series, Veda is pointed to be a (godly) supercomputer, It can change info (or lead to change of info) as long as it benefits with Aeolia's plan. If HRL database said Allelujah is disposed, Veda can be responsible for that info. When Allelujah was taken in by Celestial Being, Veda can do something to make him out of HRL's sight. Also, the info was from 00P, a side story. As far as I'm concerned, they haven't made any conflicts with the TV Series. Bronx01 02:14, February 13, 2010 (UTC) Allelujah's Age Allelujah's age of 25 was what we viewed it to be, but it is stated there that Allelujah was 24 http://www.gundam00.net/tv/character/04.html during the start of Season 2 (A.D. 2312). Allelujah's age has a possibility of reaching 25 though, thanks to the 4 month time skip in the series, which is the only time measurement (I think) we have in the season. --Bronx01 22:59, March 29, 2010 (UTC) Okay, something I found that might clarify why I edit (again) Allelujah's Age/Birthday... At the start of the Armed interventions in 2307, he's 19. Then he turned 20 during the season; not that long after, they got defeated by the UN, and it's 2308. The armed interventioned happened between 2307 and 2308; Allelujah became 20 and stayed that way through the season 1; which means he just celebrated only 1 birthday. All comes down to me thinking that Allelujah celebrated his 20th birthday in Feb 27, 2308, which made his birthdate Feb 27 2288. S2 happened 4 years after the UN's Fallen Angels, and said Allelujah was 24, which means he already pass his 24th birthday, and adding that the whole s2 all happened in 2312, he stayed 24 all the 2nd season. The movie happened 2 years after season 2, Allelujah is 26 (can change, but hey it's two years). That's all for now... --Bronx01 03:32, April 7, 2010 (UTC) Religious Allelujah Guys, i wanted to add into the profile page that Allelujah is a religious person. He occasionally prays to god and even his names are named after biblical terms. Since my edit was erased earlier about this, I wanted to know are there objects or another way of inserting that into the his character profile. Thoughts? How about you Bronox01? Wasabi 14:31, August 12, 2010 (UTC) :Is there any proof you can give to support this claim? :I did some research to Allelujah as I was writting the article and I am pretty sure there is nothing to suggest that Allelujah is religious; they didn't even touch what his rel. status is. There is nothing in the official files to point into it. The earlier novels don't have any signs that Allelujah prays to any god. :Bronx01 20:38, August 12, 2010 (UTC) The order of history Okay, just in case there are issues with the order of things. Especially to Bronx01, because you didn't agree with it and we've been editing back and forth over it. This is how it was before *Anti A-Laws Campaign **blah **more blah *Taking Back Veda However, I put it this way instead: *Anti A-Laws Campaign **blah **more blah **Taking Back Veda I did this because the whole mission to get back Veda has everything to do with getting an edge against Innovators and A-Laws, so it fits under that category, but it's been moved outside of the order, suggesting returning Veda is outside of the whole area of defeating A-Laws. As for "Final Confrontation," I put that outside of "Taking Back Veda" since it's already been retaken and that the final showdown between Innovators and CB is still within the Anti A-Laws Campaign, but also outside the subject of returning Veda. "Conclusion" is left as a second sub-category to "Anti A-Laws Campaign" because it's the end of the whole campaign and it's just finalizing everything. Now if there are objections with how I ordered things and ordered to exactly the same way to the other Meister pages, let's get this out the way now to avoid future edit conflicts, especially you Bronx01. I always liked your editing, but we've been having some conflicts with our edits. So if other editors or anyone else has an issue, let's iron it out now or it's going to grow. Once the majority agrees, lets just stick to it from now on. Thanks for your time. Wasabi 14:50, August 12, 2010 (UTC) :I can't believe your quickly making this into a community voting instead of going to me first. (Which is also done after you revert the article to your liking XD) :Anyway, I did it to be like that because: :First, I am trying to minimize the sub-sub-sub titles in the article. I was going to propose/do this while back to some articles, but I'm just busy with other things and the fact that only handful editors are really dedicated in this large wiki discouraged me. So I just did these to the articles I am editing. :Second, the objective/priority of missions changed after the Break Pillar. The first part of the series, the A-Laws are the priority, since it was the Celestial Being's main objective. That objective starts to weaken after the Memento Mori operation and completely disintegrate after the Break Pillar Fall, when A-Laws received much power than Celestial being could handle, and its clear that the Innovators are the ones they should be destroying. In short, from A-Laws Vs. CB it became Innovators vs. CB. That's how I viewed it : : : :That's is not completely true. To that point, it's not about the A-Laws itself, but it's about what the A-Laws are representing; their root that are the Innovators. That was some of the things episode 18 in second season was trying to tell. It's not A-Laws itself that is the problem, but the Innovators. The A-Laws just followed the Innovators. That's the reason CB decided to cripple the Innovators by taking Veda. :Bronx01 20:38, August 12, 2010 (UTC) Apologies Bronx01 if you feel like I swung the axe without going through you first, but i figured it's a public forum to begin with. It's not like anything we say is considered private. With that in mind, i figure it mind as well be a public discussion where others can openly debate about it. I have my own vision of how things are organized and it does bother me since I wrote over 60% of the overall 00 pages before you and the other serious editors arrived. I know anything I created isn't meant to satisfy my ego or how I view things should be edited. If there was a popular vote to it, I'm not going to challenge it. If it's just between you and me, I'm more likely to undo things or edit back to my taste. In a way, it stops me from being "territorial" about the articles. I'm sorry if I ruffled some feathers on your part. Let's have better communication next time. 21:38, August 12, 2010 (UTC) Oh yeah, one more thing, the issue at hand. All major subject areas should have some sort of closure to it. Every subject ever entered into the history had closure, but if you just separate it as the order you put it, then the Anti A-Laws Campaign seems unresolved as you started a subject outside of the subject. As a sub-subject, then it's all related and more consistent. However, like I said, if the other editors agree with you, I'll never challenge it in the future. Wasabi 22:06, August 12, 2010 (UTC) :About closure, the Post Break Pillar was always the closure for me when it comes to the Anti-A-Laws campaign. After (or during) 18, CBs operations are not meant directly against A-Laws anymore. It doesn't have to be a real conclusive one. CB's Armed Intervention campaign did not produced any real "fruits" either. --Bronx01 13:45, August 13, 2010 (UTC) More like twisted fruits. They united the world as planned, that's the closure, but their bastardized baby (ESF) started doing things beyond their imagination. As for Break Pillar, that's more like taking a break and coming back to finish the job since the Army merged into A-Laws. Wasabi 17:11, August 13, 2010 (UTC) :Regardless, their operation didn't get to their goal (complete elimination of conflicts); so that's not conclusive. And After the Break Pillar, you missed the part were they said that they can't possibly take anymore of A-Laws, so they have to face the Innovators now instead. CB know, they can't face the ESF front (it'll just exhaust them again), so their operations went against Innovators instead. They didn't ultimately succeed in their assaults against Alaws. That's the closure for their Anti-Alaws campaigns and the start of their Anti-Innovators campaign. --Bronx01 21:41, August 13, 2010 (UTC) Nothing planned ever comes out to the original vision. It's just a failed aspect of the overall plan, but they at least united most of the world, save for a few countries here and there. You do have a point, but I still feel it's still part of the overall plan to take down A-Laws since they know their puppeteers are the Innovators. That's why i put "Taking back Veda" as a sub category and prefer it that way. However, I realize we may have our points, but it's a clash of preference and personal logic. I called forth several editors and I hope they can put their views into the matter to end this debate. Editors, help out here so we can move on, thanks. Wasabi 00:13, August 14, 2010 (UTC) :But still, they didn't accomplish much of the whole picture. CBs World Intervention Campaign ended (and started with Trinity's) but CB didn't concluded what they started. So I think saying that we can't end Anti A-Laws campaign after Break Pillar just because nothing is done much, is a bit questionable for me. --Bronx01 15:27, August 14, 2010 (UTC) :Well, the facts to consider are this: : :*Tieria told CB about the Innovators before ''Memento Mori ''. So, CB knew that the Innovators were behind the formation of A-Laws, but didn't really face off against them (they were still trying to take out A-Laws). Before this, CB saw the A-LAws as the root of the problem, before the banquet incident. :*After Break Pillar and seeing that the Innnovators would stop at nothing to rule mankind, the Meister's changed their strategy from taking out A-Laws, which was a HUGE force to deal with given only 4 Gundams, 2 support units, and a battleship, to dealing with the root of the issue, the Innovators themselves. :*The story itself changed from fighting A-LAws to beating the Innovators after Break Pillar, So in hindsight, I thnk the section should be changed to "Main Heading-Anti A-Laws Campaign, include Allelujah's story, Sub Heading 1-Taking Back Veda, Sub Heading 1-Innovator Capture Operation (Anew's defection is technically a surprise in the operation) Main Heading 2-Fight for the Future. . Taking back Veda is technically a part of CB's Anti A-Laws campaign, since Veda is the thing that keeps the A-Laws alive. Gaeaman788 03:32, August 14, 2010 (UTC) ::Those reasons are why I disagree with Taikage. Anti A-Laws campaign is the time period when the operations are against A-Laws itself. When CB decided to go against Innovators, their target is not A-Laws anymore. It's not a campaign/operation against A-Laws. A-Laws are just sidelines during the last episodes. Even 18, 22, 23, 24, 25 show this. It's not about saving the world from A-Laws, its about taking down the Innovators. ::I know it still affected A-Laws, but the purpose is not directly against A-Laws anymore. It's to cripple the Innovators. --Bronx01 15:27, August 14, 2010 (UTC) :::IMO, the final parts of the series are still part of the A-LAWS campaign. CB may have not directly targeted A-LAWS but being an actual extention of the Innovators hand in terms of their policies pretty makes the A-LAWS and the Innovators one and the same with A-LAWS being the Innovators pawns. CB may have been targeting the Innovators but they are fully aware that A-LAWS are their tools and despite this they were in full conflict of A-LAWS as well as people who were trying to take down A-LAWS till the very end, including Katharon and the rebel ESF army faction. ::::That is the issue though, the target is not direct against A-Laws anymore. For me, if it needs to be in that sections, the campaign itself should be directly against A-Laws, but that's not what the series shows it. A-Laws' downfall is just part of it, but the main picture is against the Innovators themselves. At first CB is dealing with pawns, but now it is dealing with the head, that's a big change for me. (cont. v) Bronx01 22:40, August 14, 2010 (UTC) :::The very actions of A-LAWS were as a result of the Innovators anyways, so they were targeting the Innovators because they know that will bring down A-LAWS, which is their public autonomious army so to speak and they know A-LAWS creation and policies as well as manipulation is due to the Innovators, and that this will stop once that happens. Its not as if they were deliberately avoiding fight with A-LAWS when forced into them, they fought them when they got the chance and they still destroyed the 2nd/3rd MM. The Innovators were also still using their A-LAWS credentials as late as S2-20 when Ragnant debuted, with Commander Goodman being aware of the failure of the mission and deciding to go for the all out army approach. I would have answered differently if they did not enter any A-LAWS conflicts or stayed neutral in said conflicts when the A-LAWS and Katharon/ESFRebel duked it out but they did not for some reason but they were as willing to fight them as ever because they know that A-LAWS itself is still a threat. The Innovators may be a different higher faction and getting Veda from them was always the final priority but A-LAWS was never "un-targeted" so to speak and they never deliberately stopped fighting them or decided they were harmless. :::-SonicSP 19:16, August 14, 2010 (UTC) :::: (cont. from ^) It's not about avoiding fights with the A-Laws. :::: After 18, fights against A-Laws isn't a struggle between them anymore. CB has something other (bigger) on their minds. Before that, the operations are against A-Laws' operations. Example, it's like there's one topic, they fight to defend their own points. But now, it's about just getting past A-Laws to get to their new goals. For me, that's not a campaign to oppose (Anti) A-Laws anymore. The campaign is against the Innovators. Bronx01 22:40, August 14, 2010 (UTC) :::: Oh yeah, they didn't show Goodman knowing the Anew mission. He just doesn't trust the licensed Captains (keeping to themselves and independent actions and all that). --Bronx01 22:40, August 14, 2010 (UTC) Okay guys, I need closure to this now. Do you think the history structure that's currently set (common with all the Meister's pages) is the best one or do you agree with Bronx01's structure? Because this will be definitive for future structures as well. Tell me what you think guys. Wasabi 14:22, August 20, 2010 (UTC) About Appearances Bronx01, why are you sooo firm about the "Appearance" section? I mean seriously, nobody even writes a single thing in there and all of us can see how the character looks like through the pics. Why would anyone spend time to write something like that while they can just look into the gallery? Wasabi 14:22, August 20, 2010 (UTC) :I am firm about it because it is a section telling about the character's appearance inside its article. It's describing the character. That should be one enough reason to do it. It's not like we're adding something of a complete lie. Other reasons, I believe I already gave some of it to you sometime ago. :Also, If you really look, no one is interested in really editing 00 characters, except tidbits, new stuff and copy+paste. Even those things you left blank months (or a year) ago haven't been filled yet. :And seriously, using that line of reasoning of yours, no one should expand on any articles too, since they could just watch the series themselves. Really, step back a bit and cool down. --Bronx01 18:17, August 20, 2010 (UTC) Dude, I wrote that in a calm manner so it was breezy to begin with. As for your reasons, true, the history can be eliminated if we had a video of it, but then the finer details may have been missed. As for my blank sections, they're blank because i had hoped someone else would fill it in as to me always filling in the blanks. However the gallery alone is enough to fill in what Allelujah was dressed up as. However, if you're so firm about it, I'll leave it as that. Wasabi 01:26, August 22, 2010 (UTC) Allelujah aftermath of season 1 http://www.gundamgallery.com/data/media/44/GundamGallery%20Gundam%2000%20Ss%20127.jpg another wth moment, when did this ever happen, must be the special edition again. -Dav7d2 14:00, December 8, 2010 (UTC) :Flashback from episode 3 of season 2 --Bronx01 14:06, December 8, 2010 (UTC) Seeing a pattern here? Is it just me or are all of Allelujah's Gundams meant for carving up the enemy? GN-003 Kyrios: Pincer shield and heat blade. GN-007 Arios: Beam shield used as pincer in fighter mode. GN-011 Harute: Sissor bits. First a pincer to grab and stab with, then a pincer that slices the enemy in two and then flying sissors. It's as if Hallelujah designed these Gundams. "Targeted and firi....Where'd he go?" Wingstrike 12:16, April 29, 2011 (UTC)